Wiki/Report of Meeting 2024-01-11

Report of Meeting 2024-01-11

Present: Skip Cave, Raul Miller, and Bob Therriault

Full transcripts of this meeting are now available below on this wiki page.

1) Bob said that Ed sends his regrets that he will not be able to attend today's meeting so that there will not be an update on the J Viewer. Bob mentioned that Ed had said that the forum posts were broken on the last update and that Bob had not updated, but had noted that the double height button indicating that there was update available was effective.

2) Bob showed the work that he had done on the Communities page https://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/Category:Community_C beginning with the Forum pages where he had put in expanded view on the page that mirrored the category tree access on the right. https://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/Category:Forums_C.1 The issue with this is that the information needs to be maintained in two places. It was agreed that for pages that are not updated very often this is probably reasonable as long as a notice is left in the page mark-up that there is another location of this page's information. Looking at the NYCJUG pages in User groups, https://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/Category:User_Groups_C.4 Bob had started to use headings and expanding sections to make NYCJUG entries more available until he realized that Devon was already maintaining all the information on the NYCJUG page https://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/NYCJUG and duplication of effort did not seem a good idea. Bob then showed the Users page where the compression makes more sense. https://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/Category:Users_C.5

3) Raul mentioned that he had been cleaning up dead links by using the Special Pages Wanted pages https://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages. Many of these are created because the # sign has a different meaning in the Wiki markup than the urls. Juser prefixes also linked to the wiki and many of those pages have been deleted on jsoftware. https://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki Bob wondered if we could just set the juser not be forwarded on the wiki. The challenge there is that we would lose all of those links which may include some with good information. The solution may be to spend some time going through the links and cleaning up the ones that do not exist and redirect them to another page that may already may be on the wiki. We may want to develop some documentation that will allow this to be a community task. This type of maintenance doesn't lend itself to batch automated solutions, but a more nuanced approach that requires users to make some informed decisions on the appropriate contents. Bob felt he would focus on making sure that the Newcomers pages were up to date and accurate because mistakes on Newcmoers pages would have the most negative impact.

4) Raul and Chris had been discussing some issues with the google groups forums that he felt were due to delayed updating of information on the web. Chris had indicated that he was not sure where information about the forums should be placed in the wiki. Bob said that the category tree pages that he had been developing in the new wiki had links to the same pages that Chris had been updating all along https://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/System/Forum. Users were unlikely to find the category tree pages as there are no direct links from the existing wiki, with the exception of category tree categories which are now being exposed after being previously hidden.

5) Skip suggested that searching is still a problem with users not knowing which terms to use in their searches. As we worked through the "remove duplicates" in the J Viewer, we noted that there seemed to be different results depending on which areas were included in the search. Skip indicated that the order of results changed depending on whether GitHub results were selected or not.

For access to previous meeting reports https://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/Wiki_Development If you would like to participate in the development of the J wiki please contact us on the J forum and we will get you an invitation to the next J wiki meeting held on Thursdays at 23:59 (UTC) Next meeting is January 18, 2024.

Transcript

And Ed has relayed his unavailability for today's meeting, so we don't need to wait for him, which is a shame, but I'm not sure he's got something else going on, I guess.

He says he'll be back next week. So there's not too much of an update. I don't think any of us can really give on the JViewer.

Other than the last thing I heard from him is that he had something that he broke with the forums.

So actually I haven't updated the database since then because I like to use it.

And it works for me right now. So, well, I guess we'll see what ends up happening and I'll check with him later to find out what, whether the forms are back up again.

I did notice the fact that it needed to be update was very obvious because the button doubled in height, and that's a very evident thing. So that part of it seems to be working quite well.

Any other observations for anybody if he wants feedback on how everything's going for him?

I've been popping in and out of the, with your, so fast that the checks for updates never have a chance to complete.

Do something, find a page and then shut it back down again because I'm doing something else and I didn't want to complicate it.

Yeah, yeah, well I guess that is that's the time when it's in the background you don't want to have that mess something up.

Yeah, so anyway that's where things are for that.

For what I've been working on in the community page.

We will share screen.

I know I've messed up all my.

You know I cancel that go to my web browser make I'm sure I'm in the right. Oh, that's why. Okay, that makes sense.

Now, and now I can share screen.

Problem with having too many tabs open.

Okay, so actually this is, this will be the next thing we work on, because Chris has been talking about some issues with the Google groups in the forums.

Anyway, stuff that I did put in place for expanding for the community pages, I added this so the forums expand that way.

And

the same way you can get to it this way, which will take you into the forums page, or you don't have to go to the forums page because now you've got access from these on a drop, drop down.

So I've done that for the forums page. I didn't do it for the IRC channels, because there didn't seem to be.

I'm not sure whether I want to. I mean, all these are linked basically and I would just be putting them. I guess there's a question of whether I put them on the main page or not, but

yeah, I think that one's small enough that it would, it would fit fine I think it's the big pages with, you know, more than like a short bit of content that that you'd want the people visiting the page rather than just

seeing it here. Yeah, no, the challenge I've got, and it exists with the forums as well, is if I change something.

Actually, that is not the way I want it. I want to expand it.

If these changes here have to keep pace on this page with these pages changes that are on this page.

Yeah, that's, I can think of a way of solving that but I don't know if it's worth the bother.

You can make a template and use the content for both places.

But I won't. Well, if I make a template that I won't have this kind of a drop down well I

knew the template would supply the content of the drop down. Oh, I see. So you just do a template content and then it would be able to supply, it would be both places.

Yeah, it'd be a styling issue but that's solvable. The question is, if it's worth the bother. It's not, you know, how often is it going to change and how much work are you really saving if you go that route.

Yeah, that's true. What I have done is I think I've, I think it's in this one I've put a comment in. Yeah, the form information has to be changed.

Yeah, same time comment comments are great, especially, you know, for something that you can kind of come back two years later and and make a minor thing it's it's it's not.

I'm a great fan big fan of doing stuff manually when it's coding something up.

Now what I did notice.

I was working great with collapse and expand. And then I realized off this link.

Devon's doing that anyway.

And he's maintaining it.

So, all the information is there, split up that way it doesn't make sense for me to do something the same thing it was what he's doing.

So other than the all the extra pages showing up here. And then what I did is I just put the links for the other ones. So they show up as well. And I can add whatever I want in there.

But the downside of this is what I could do is I could go in and take the category out of all these individual links, they won't show up.

But, well, I, it's possible there's a reason to have doing it of doubling up like that is that his his work doesn't show up in the in the in the toggle will treat tree structure over here.

Yes, your stuff isn't really the page structure that he's made him.

Yeah.

So, what I guess I may I may go in and take those categories out so these don't show up the only one that would link is here, and then that's what he's maintaining.

That might be the better way to go. I think

that can be done. That's just, you know, listening to some music and doing some editing.

What I did notice when I got down to the users.

I left these as main because it's basically main links, and then expanding the user groups that have these connected are not complete, like for instance, there's a lot more users that should be in here in this list.

But, and I can add them here but then I guess it also becomes a question do we want all the users linked here.

And then, you know, if I'm going to put them there. And I'm kind of thinking we kind of do what I've done here is if you click on the main link.

It takes you to the special page, which is the, the user list.

And I guess if I wanted to be more discerning, I guess I could set that

show it under those conditions.

And then it would, then it would be a slightly shorter list because it wouldn't, it would only have people who make contributions.

But then that the other the other options just to have everybody in there.

It is in there.

The advantage of users with edits is it's, it's the value of user of everyone, it's more of an inclusive thing you know if you want to make people feel like they belong but the value user edits is those are the people who provide more value to the readers, since they've actually, you know, you go there and you'll see some content.

Yeah, and I favor the reviewers I think there's something like this.

I'm trying to figure out why I guess I've now got the J wiki over top of my share screen, I get it on with you guys can see this.

You probably can't.

But I'm just trying to think of a way to make it.

I'm going to stop screen sharing anyway.

And then everything's back the way it should be. Okay.

Yeah, so anyway that was some of the stuff that I was dealing with, just in terms of how I compress things.

And I am guessing that it makes more sense to have a reduced tree.

If we don't want to have links to it if the links are already on the page.

But then the main links would still be available.

Getting people into content is the primary goal here so yeah it accomplishes that. That's true.

To give it some more thought.

Anyway, that's what I've been working on.

I was fixing some dead links today.

Yes, I saw that.

There is. There's, there's a batch that there's two things I probably should are relevant here.

One is that if you go, there's a special wanted pages that I used to find a bunch of stuff that that was, you know, the low hanging fruit of broken stuff with a lot more things that need attention.

That's there is like hundreds more than 500, 536 pages that that we have links to that don't exist.

And, you know, number those are things like add ons that you know we know we is a known issue that we've got to fill out that documentation.

And other times it's typos that lot of things I did today were typos where when I did the the mass conversion of content from the J software site over to here.

Town sign is not a valid character in URL because it marks a hash and it's comment so I use I changed it to number. But in some cases, the links that I was bringing over needed the hash and they said number so they were now broken links because they didn't have the hash anymore so I went and change those manually today.

But there's there's plenty more under the special wanted pages that that you know various issues you can have a look at them to see what they're about.

I want to admit at Chris today and he's in the process of it.

The other thing that I noticed today is that we have a J user prefix like an inner wiki prefix links back to the old J software user manual, which Eric has deleted from the site.

So there's a whole bunch of pages that link back.

That need fixing now because the contents gone.

And you can search for J user and find a lot of them some of the stuff you find when you search for J user is other stuff, but a J code search for J user finds most of that stuff.

And is that part of the cinder wiki link thing here.

Um, yes, it should. J.

J ls he is there.

And if you

J user is like eight lines up in the bottom of the of the page here.

About four or five lines above where your mouse is.

Not that no lines, not not pages.

Okay.

Go down see what you see, see GSB and base got it. Yeah, J users down there, right there. Yeah.

So, those that content does not exist. Okay. And it's possible that some of these other prefixes are also in use and link to content that's not exist, does not exist.

Any links to J software, where the site's been updated to remove the content is stuff that we can have a wiki link and and probably findable without too much effort, and it doesn't be a dead link when you get there.

If you go do a J code search for J user right now.

So click on any of these. Yeah, like the first one there.

And if you like the J system overview I think is an example.

J system over here.

I think that's nope that's not an example.

Oh, that is an example goes back to that's a page that hasn't been deleted. But anyways, all. If you if you if you hit edit you can you can see what what links use J user.

And I was running into some that didn't exist but I guess it's it's some new exists so that's the one we're involved in just doing a search for this.

Probably J WDP is bad.

Don't think that that's considered current content.

So they go, J WP second link down second link down under see also.

Okay.

Okay. Yeah.

That's just content, you know, at some point we're going to plow through that. See what things don't exist, see if it should exist. And if so link it somewhere else and or it shouldn't exist in which case you could take it off the page.

What happens if we go back to this and just set these guys to know if they shouldn't exist anymore.

What does no mean.

It's forward.

Oh,

so I'm guessing it's the link that goes through.

I'd have to look up what you're looking.

I believe what it's doing is I think it makes it allow it allows it to be a local link. So it doesn't require the external.

I'm not sure about that.

I think it has to do with how they displayed.

Um,

like this one on the line I'm on right now the WSVN that's old right. That's not how our sources.

Yeah, subversion is isn't all good. Anyways, I'm sure that changing that forward link from yes to no will change something I just don't know what it is that will change. Okay.

I just wondered whether it's a way to basically to break things and make it easier to find them.

Like for instance when we go to something that's there.

Like J system overview.

We've got that as well on the wiki.

Right.

Um, yeah.

I don't think we rely on on the

system overview is here on the wiki.

Yeah, you're probably right for changing it to know will turn these all into pages that don't exist which means I'll show up under special pages, one of the pages.

So be a different, but the ones that do exist would also break if you did that.

Yes. But what I'm thinking is

it does get tricky because I'm thinking, if you if you trigger the wanted pages.

Like if you if you break everything that's on the J software site, you're, you're relying entirely on the J wiki site.

And the things I'm thinking that are exceptions that I know are still on the J software site are some of the Iverson documents right.

Yeah, and there's some other stuff.

Yeah, there's like a list of.

There's a list of defined words that similar to the add on documentation.

I saw that works.

And, but are those are is that information still useful to a J user.

Where is that historic.

Well it's it's defining its definitions for names I haven't gone through it to see whether there's stuff with all of those things have been ported over to the wiki yet.

Gotcha. Yeah, no I know what you mean now it's the same as some of that index stuff that you brought across.

Right.

Probably update if we had a strategy for updating it but that's, it's more, more than just flipping a switch. Yeah, yeah.

Anyways, I don't I don't mind, you know, spending a half hour a day going through some of these things and see if I can fix them up. I just thought it's an issue that exists.

Yeah, no, definitely.

Imagine it's something that all of us should be spending a bit of time on just looking.

As you say, and it's it's special pages and wanted pages is that where it shows up.

If you go to special wanted pages.

Wanted on watch pages where we wanted pages. Yep.

Oh yeah.

So what you can do if you go to any of those you get to a patient as exist, might as well scroll down to something that doesn't add on one, like alpha down there maybe it's good one or subversion.

Add on.

Look at 37 or 41.

Okay.

So this is a page that was deleted, because we're not using subversion anymore. Yeah. Hypothetically, we can bring it back. We really wanted to but we don't.

And if you click to. And if you if you select on the left hand side, what links here.

Then you see the pages that have a link to this one, and you can, and you can go ahead and clean up those links.

If I go to one of these add ons.

And then I go to what links here.

Okay.

Yeah, this is really is just a big cleaning effort really well.

Well, they like the add ons it's it's probably as simple as you load the add on you run names, you know, or you open it and and grab the lines that are global assignments and get the names from that.

And, and then that gives you a list and then then you go through and see if there's comments or whatever and try and fill in the blanks for what those what each one does.

And maybe put a draft notice on the page. If you're a little uncertain and you think you want to encourage people to

Double check.

Okay, so in the case of this one, if I follow what you're saying, would I then just say click on j l j 802

If you well know it, you would click you would you would you would go to jail 802 if you thought that this was a erroneous link if this if this page is because an error.

Right.

But I think that IDJ HS is a is a valid topic. And we want documentation on the items I think there might be some jhs documentation already. This could be a redirect page, but

So this, you know, this, this might be a simple one to solve.

But for another add on like I can pick or something. It's probably better to just put together

A list of the functions that the verbs that defines and and give some documentation for them so that you know people that are coming in, can can get started quickly.

Like Sarah.

Same. It's the same. All the items are going to have the same kinds of links, because it's a systematic thing.

Yeah, yeah.

But if you if you go to jq team say open math I can pick

That'll bring up the source and then you have a bunch of

Stuff relating to eigenvectors and values and

Whatever else.

If I go here to add ons.

And

So if I do add ons math. I can pick. It's going to take me to the same spot doesn't even show up here.

It was not a page that exists.

So it's not going to show up there.

Right, because it's only going to block pages that exist. Right.

But you can go to jq t and say load math. I can pick right and and then say names under by I can pick under bar, quote, quote, and it'll give you the list of the names that this thing defines and

I'm not sure whether this one's meant to be used more interactively or be used from the command line. It does have a

GUI interface and maybe it's better to take some pictures and and and make some suggestions about one button in there.

So if I go to

Tools.

Package Manager.

And it's just alphabetic

Will be in math, right.

That I can pick

Thank you might not have it installed.

We've got everything installed. I think. So just, I wouldn't bother with package manager. I just go to load.

Okay, and the command line.

Load math. I can pick

That's not going to show up because you haven't shared that window. Right, right. Now I have I have I can picture here. And if you hit

The.

What is it

The run button will bring up yet another window and you can you can play with that window a little bit. Yeah, it's working.

Anyways, this is an example of one that's probably more of a UI focus on a command line focus. Yeah. And so you'd want

User Interface focus documentation.

Which seems to me that it comes back to

It comes back to actually wanting to document the add ons really right right this should be there should be documentation for each add on.

Right. And that's all the add ons are probably an example of documentation that needs to exist. Right. Some of the other things are not examples of pages that should exist. Some are erroneous links. Right. Or just are symptoms of some other problem.

And so why would the so you're talking about the links back to the J software site.

Those would show up there as well. No, those won't show up there. Those are just I noticed I dash was my starting point. I noticed those problems and was and then was starting to think about how to how to find missing links and I stumbled over the one at pages and

I fixed some of the the the blatant the top

Problems there.

I mentioned it here because you know we're with you.

Yes, yep. No, no, it makes perfect sense. It's just a

I'm just thinking where they would show up as if we did break that link by changing a yes to a no. Suddenly, all those would show up there too, but they're not differentiated. So that's probably not the thing we want to do.

Right. We can probably spider the site if we wanted to or spider both sides. If we wanted to

Now spider the site and check the links back to J software and then spider those and see what comes before for us. Yeah, we wanted to if you want to do a batch, you know, make thoroughness, but I don't know that we need to do batch because you know we can. This is a

Going to be an ongoing problem anyway so it makes more sense to have a routine than to have a

Yeah, it's more just gardening to me. And when I say just gardening, it's, it's really important, but it's not something you necessarily would do on an industrial scale like batching

Right, you're going to have to look at links and maintain and that's going to be an ongoing battle and

Unfortunately, with the amount of information we got. I'm guessing a lot of it will show up as people discover it.

Yeah, and then and then if they can't fix it, we can fix it.

I did. And like I was looking at the defining verbs guide and I think it had some links to like script doc which doesn't exist anymore, except for us a a obscure thing in

JHS but it doesn't exist in the sense that the page was was suggesting so

Yeah, and and that was

Definitely editorial concepts here to it's more than than

Much to think that people that are reading the

The site are going to be able to do more than raise a flag.

No, and I sort of my way of leaning into that was to try and make sure that all the stuff in the newcomers area is solid.

And then after that, you know, it's it as it gets fixed or as you discover you can fix it. But I think the place where it's most important to somebody who's just coming in fresh not to not to hit a jackpot.

But it might be worthwhile doing a editing tools page or something or wiki minute maintenance gardening tools pages.

Mentioning, mentioning the the the different pages. Yeah.

What that they exist and what they're useful for and

Yeah, kind of problems they saw

Well, that would be a very good idea. Yeah. And in case you have a spare half hour. You want to go in. This would be the way to address it.

Yep.

Yeah.

Okay. And then the other thing that I guess was part of a discussion back and forth with you and Chris was the Google, the Google groups.

And that was one. Yeah.

Yeah. And also, there's an is been thing that I don't think you got CC down.

Okay.

I think, I think it was a simple change, but I think it's cached and so it that change hadn't shown up yet.

Starting to me. Okay.

But in terms of the wiki. One of the questions he had is where, where should we be fixing this. And to be quite honest, we should fix it right now. The pages. I've been working on really are almost invisible to the user. There's not really a way to stumble onto them unless you go looking for them in categories.

But so, so whatever links to the main system page exists is is the places you want to do changes. I have linked to those places as well. But the fact that I've linked to them. That's not how a user is going to find them.

So, a change to say forums page is a change to the forums page. It changes the link that I've got to the forums page as well.

So I think that's the simple answer is until we actually

Launch the new look just go fixing things where you would expect to, you know, expect to see them.

And then, and then sometimes it'll link back

That's about that skip

That I said thoughts.

Now I think I'm sorry I've been working on some other stuff and I missed what Mr. Last statement. So I'm sorry about that.

That's okay. I muted you for a bit because we were picking up a lot of sound off. Yeah.

Oh, really. Okay. Yeah. All right. Well, so, so you were saying about the categories. I was trying to

Yeah, well, Chris had a question just earlier today about if he went into adjust something on the forums to put better information.

For a user. Where should he put it because he I think he was seeing my forum. My work on the forum community page, things like that.

But those are really category pages and they don't affect they'll link back to the forums page, but they won't affect the information on the forums page.

So I think he was thinking, maybe I have to go do something with a category page. He doesn't just as the forums page and the categories page will link back to that stuff and the categories page are hard to find unless you're looking for them.

Oh, yeah. Well, so to me.

To me, it's just getting, you know, lots of times when I'm looking for something I have to

Lots of times you have to think, well, what, what semantics will get me to the place and get that or that I want to know. And lots of times, the first idea that my semantics is not right, you know, get me to something that

That is not what Jay uses for the for this kind of thing, you know, so that's that to me. So the more

Terminologies that you can put together that will get you, you know,

You know, different, more different ways to explain the same

Concept or that are lead you to the concept that there's there's different if there's different definitions of that concept, it'd be best if you could put all the as many as you can think of that were similarly similar. I guess that's all I'm saying.

Yeah. And you had a suggestion, a couple of meetings ago that we make the categories visible and I did that for a number of pages and there hasn't been any effect, except I just thought of one that just as we're talking about it.

Having the categories visible at the bottom. If people click on them, they will bring come back into that new form of category.

So they will show up there and that would be a way to get back into them that wouldn't have been possible in the past. So,

Yeah, you're right. Well, if there's any way to

Broaden the semantics

Vectors that take you to the take you to the, the, the idea that you want numbers of this three or four ways to talk about nub, for example, or, you know, you know,

And there are, and you can say it's nub. It's a get rid of duplicates. It's a, you know,

Yeah, I don't know. There are probably several English phrases that that define different ways to describe nub or, you know, whatever you want to say.

Yeah.

I'm not sure. Do you know, with the, with the non structural categories, I'll call them the ones that were kind of a cloud, Raoul.

Are those searchable like would would if you had if you decided to tag something

You know, nub you do tag it with duplicate. Is there a way to do that, like as a category or would you just, is there another way to tag a page.

If you, you can say category colon something and it'll, I think it will show up in the search box if you if you spell it right. I think also

I'm not, I don't remember if

Vanilla search will will bring up category pages and not though

No, I don't think it does. I was looking at that the other night.

So what happens if I search for remove duplicates, for example, you know, how do you remove duplicates.

You know that. Does that take you to, does it take you to the right place. I guess.

If you used

Ed's J viewer.

It's much more likely you're going to hit links that will take you to the right place. I don't think the wiki itself will do that.

But there are a lot of things, a lot of pages that do talk about duplicates. So, and the first one when I search for

Remove duplicates is the nub primitive. So that one happens to work.

Okay, yeah, that's probably

Okay.

I didn't do there just to see what happens.

It gives me lots of

It gives me lots of stuff. So, but it didn't, you know,

We do remove it, you get the first hit is is told the dot, which is, I think, like the fifth one down for if you just search duplicates

Oh yeah, 12345. Yeah, right. Yeah. SSA is move. All right. Let's see.

Oh, you, you might have them in a different. I don't see essays at all on my when I search for duplicates here.

Oh, let's see. What do I have set up. Let's see. I in order I just typed in duplicates and I typed in the J viewer.

Oh, you're in the J viewer. Yeah. Okay. I was searching in the wiki. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, it's okay. Yeah, I can see I I fired up my J viewer and I see there's a new version available. So I haven't updated in the last few days. So I mean,

Yeah, yeah, I wouldn't. There was a bug that he's working on. So I don't know how important is to stay up to date right now.

Okay. Okay.

All right. All right. Well, that's, that's all I just, like I said to me, the biggest problem I had learning J and still today is, you know, I know I want to do something.

And I can describe it in English terms, you know what I want to do, you know, and then actually, you know, finding the primitive sets or, or, you know, or

Our set of primitives primitive or set of primitives that conceivably do what I want to do is that, you know,

That's a, that's a, not just with J that's a generic search problem is coming up with the right jargon to find the content that you were looking for.

But with the wiki at least what you can do once you do find I mean if it let's say you you you have a phrase and you use it and it doesn't find what you want. And then later on, you stumble across it when it does find you want

You can go to that page and add in like a paragraph that uses the phrase that you wanted so that somebody else won't have the same problem.

That's true. That's true. Well, I find that that, you know, I keep if I'm just doing generic Google searches, you know, and I want to find something I'll

Put type in something and I won't get anything, but I'll get a hint that maybe a different word would be the right one. And I use that word and I that worked or at least it gets me closer

You know, maybe a couple of tries at it. I got. Oh, that's what I want. Yep.

And skip in in J viewer. There are two places that you can enter text. One is any order and the other is in order. Right.

Yeah, right, right, right. Type remove

Order. Yeah, duplicate in order and I didn't know but type in remove duplicates, which is what you want to do.

Okay. Okay.

I'll see what

It'll be the top

It says losing states anger AOC. No, I didn't. That wasn't it.

You just think I've got everything. I've got everything checked or GitHub with the Rosetta

You I have everything checked as well. And I just typed in remove duplicates.

And remove duplicates.

And what I'm seeing is very on page one.

Page one. I'm losing states.

I get things as anger slash AOC. That's it. So that's a

And what color is it

Hard one down is remove duplicates. Okay, this is hamming in having numbers. So that's, it's still not a if we officially want to officially remove

Duplicate that I got a new NYC JUC JG 2009

Hit if I click on that one. Let's see what it says. Yeah. I wonder whether there is a problem with the forum data or that would be form data because I haven't downloaded the latest data.

But when I type in remove duplicates. It literally is the first hit is till the dot and the vocabulary.

Interesting. Okay, well, that's I've seen I see. Oh, there it is. I see a

Vocabulary till the dot down about 101234

810 thing. Okay, till the dot so

So for whatever reason, we're getting them in different orders, which is a bit weird, but

Well, like I said, I haven't I haven't

Updated by Dave here. Oh, there it came up. Okay. Yeah. So it takes a it takes a while. It took a while because that's partly because I've been I'm running

You know, I'm running the the

Wiki meet the meeting right and

And that but it came up. It's like the temps thing down, but that's it. It came out

Well, it'd be a good question for Ed whether or not everybody should get things in the same order

You would expect they would but I don't know maybe it's not deterministic that way

Yeah, yeah, well it's interesting that the first nine

There's things like array manipulation a lot of NYC juge

for NYC juge

pages a Rosetta page an essay from Ken and

Anger a oh

Advent a code is an advent code is the top one

Hmm

Yeah, I do see an advent of code, but it's well down. It's like fourth from the bottom for the wiki pages

so

Maybe I'll I'll ask it about that whether the we should all get the same

Order of things or whether there's some reason I'd be different

Or if we were using the database

Yeah, I've got a it says new J viewer version available

So I probably need to and it says click to download the latest data. I don't know

I got two buttons one that says

Click to load the Dallas lays that and next to the new J version available. Okay, so

Well, so right now what I've got is click to download the latest data and I haven't done that and I won't do that until

I hear from Ed that it's clean

But my J viewer is up to date and so I don't have to update my J viewer

So one is the machinery that looks at things and the other is the data that it looks at

So the data

But yeah, I apparently I have that you also have the J viewer is not

Like a swan and then that doesn't take barely any time to download. That's really quick. Okay, I'll click it real quick

It says that play updating the J viewer. Let's see how long it takes

spinning

And oh, I went to sleep and that's popping back up again

And says checking for the new version

Checking is checking for the newest version and checking for the new database. So it's

Rechecking everything. I said J viewers up to date. Yeah

Alright, but click the land. I'll download the latest data. That's right missing. So now I say remove do

Go ahead. I'll see what you get in this time

All right remove duplicates

There'll still be a different order for an instance of the database I

Think okay

Okay, so now

Wow, it's totally different but

the

Then they are sees way down there and I don't see anything about

Vocabulary

Okay, there it is. There it is. Now the vocabulary is one two, three four

So a thing that okay. Yeah. Yeah

well and that I think as well as pointing out that just might be the difference of when I

Downloaded the database and when you downloaded the database and they're both out of date, but they may be different versions of the database

Yeah, yeah, yeah, so yeah, it's too bad you can't somehow

semantically

rank

What's the most?

Semantically close

Originally he was using he was using the SQLites built-in semantic ranking ranking mechanism

But there were a bunch of issues with that

So he said it was better it made more sense to just just not bother sorting at all because there were so many issues

that came up with sorting and performance and

On certain searches and so on and so forth

I think the thing that one thing that Ed's really focused on for this is the speed of access and

Okay, I think what he figures is if he can get you the results quickly

Then you can go through the results and decide what's useful

whereas

If he if he does a ranking and it takes a lot longer

You're gonna be sitting there waiting for something and the ranking may not correspond to what you're looking for. Anyway

Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's definitely it's definitely speedier than it was but when I click a different one

Like if I if I go up here - there's a there's a thing. There's several

listings that above the

Vocabulary that says it might be nice to remove duplicates

So it's in github. So if I click on github

2000

Five thousand six thousand seven. So there what you're doing anything is waiting for github to come back. It's no one's right

I do JV. Yeah, right. Yeah, right, right

Right. There it is now it's there but it's not displaying anything. It's this blank screen

So I don't know. Oh, they're kidding. They're kidding. Okay. Yeah, so what's happening there?

Skip is you're clicking on a link to the internet and it's your internet speed. It's no longer the speed of J viewer

But the semantic analysis of it might be nice to remove duplicates

They're probably not going to be in the

In the definition page, which would be the top of the you know, the top of the list, but I don't know how you

Make that decision

well

in in my

Version of the viewer. It's got a thick black underline under the the words remove duplicates. Oh, yeah, you're right

You're right. It doesn't have that. You're right. Yeah, that's cut that's popped in now. So I see it

and so what's interesting is

for for tilde dot or the actual nub it says removes

Duplicates not remove duplicates so it does all right that yeah

You're right. It doesn't underline it. It's still picking it up. So

Yeah, yeah, so

So yeah, if I thought about it, I guess I should have asked for removes with an S

Let me put the S on there and see what happens. Mm. I might change it, but

We'll see what happens

Yeah that moved nub up to the third one

No, no, I take that back it gets it, you know, no, it's still

It's still

It's still down there

Three four six seven eight eight down

You know, I don't know. That's interesting

But if I want it if I'm just wanting to look I just want to go to the wiki

and and if I if I don't want to look anywhere, but

If I want to get the actual

I'm gonna get rid of turn off get her for

Rosetta

Cora

YouTube

So now hey tell her that's the top one

That actually makes a difference does it turning the other one?

Yeah, absolutely. So what what's I unchecked everything but the wiki?

Which I probably should do if I'm looking for, you know definitions. Yeah, then, you know

So now if I click on that

Okay, really kill the dot

See what I get

There it is. Yeah. Okay. That's the top. So that that's the secret if you're looking for the most

Authentic I guess

Definitions or the basics you probably want to stick with the wiki because that's I think at one point

He had the wiki being the top search results. I don't know if that's no longer the case or what?

Well when I see them if I uncheck things the only

The only things I see returning are the wiki when I've got them all checked the top thing I see is the wiki

So I think he's done that but the ordering for me actually didn't change when I unchecked things

It just did just

Yeah, I'm checking some other I should get a good hub boom and all of a sudden

Till the dot vocabulary is wait is way down. So as I start checking ones I start losing it

Interesting and you're at the top of the page

It was at top of the page. If the only thing I have was wiki. Yeah, then then vocabularies at the top

Yeah, does that check get her?

Boom, I get five get hubs above vocabulary

forum I

Don't lose any in forum. I I'm still down if I check

core up oh

Then I lose it I got I got I got one more at the top

Yeah, I I

Would say check back with Ed find out whether we can download the latest data and then go from there because if you've got things

From github getting mixed up with things from the wiki. That's very strange. I've got everything grouped in mind

Yeah, but that might just be because of the problem that was with the data

So I don't know

Yep

Yeah, just so well I'm gonna do the same we'll find out whether it's it's safe to download the data and then we're back to work

Yeah

I got it. I got a check. Okay. Okay. I just unchecked wiki and that slowed me all down but

So anyway, that's that I'm yeah, I learned a lot I learned something

Better

So, I guess what we came down to after our discussion role is that we probably should be

giving people some tools to go in and fix links and ways to find broken links and

And and then if we got that those things in place

Sort of in the wiki development area. We can folk we can direct people to that and see what response we get

Basically to do maintenance in the wiki which is different than what we've been doing up until now

yeah, that seems like a

I'll see if I can throw together a draft page and maybe you can improve it something like that. Okay, I'll work with you on that

for sure

All right, excellent excellent

any

So I've got

Well, that's all I got - that's all I got as well so

Call it a wrap. Thanks a lot. And thank you guys

No worries

You're giving us you're giving us the eyes that are pointing out the the issues and that's that's as important as anything

It's really important actually more important

well, you know generally if you have somebody else coming in to try to do something and describing their their their process and

their frustrations

That points out the issues usually pretty quickly. Yeah, and and the wiki has such a wide wide audience

We're always going to be a little bit. Yeah. Yeah, it's always like I said, it's to me it's

it's the issue it's kind of a combination of of

semantics and

and

How narrowing?

Try to in other words if there's some way to rate

the

definitions higher

No, no functional or verb definitions higher than all the other stuff that talks about the verbs

You know, there's there's yeah, there's you know, there's 50 things in there that have till this in it. Don't it? You know, that's right. So

So if you if you could maybe and maybe he did I mean, I don't know maybe you could you're getting a top now

Maybe he's figured that out too

But that to me that the idea that that that when somebody's asking for something like remove duplicates

Of course the S's was very interesting

Because I didn't if I don't have an S on the removes

You see what happens?

Yeah

It's still doing it. Okay. Now as long as I got the J wiki connected, it's okay

But if I put other ones in there, then I was said, oh

It honestly, no, it's still still holding it back. So they put github in there. It drops down and

remove duplicates is

is

higher

Rated then remove it removes with an S duplicates. Huh? Cuz cuz cuz github has

five

Early or at least three or four or five different

Remove duplicates words together with no S and

The the wiki has removed

with no S

remove duplicates

So this just just the plural

Dropped it. Yeah. Yeah, and and in the end, you know ten years from now

That might be something that AI does solve because it can take it out specify things a bit

But then you're relying on AI and that's a tricky thing as well. Anyway

Okay, well, that's great. Have a good week