Wiki/Report of Meeting 2023-09-21

Report of Meeting 2023-09-21

Present: Art Anger, Ed Gottsman, Raul Miller, and Bob Therriault

Full transcripts of this meeting are now available below on this wiki page.

1) Ed has run into some problems with the beta of the J Viewer on Windows. The decision was made to put the beta on pause for Windows and to let the testers know that Windows testing is on hold until Ed gets a Windows box for testing. Bob had mentioned that he had seen a flash on the screen before components expand. More troubleshooting on that issue in the transcript. We determined that JQt version J9.4 does work for the Mac so that beta test can go forward, while we figure out the 9.5beta issues that seem to be related to the new version of JQt.

2) Bob thinks he will be off the grid for the next two Thursdays and for now will set the next meeting as Thursday, October 12. If this changes then the invitations will be sent out in advance of the Thursday meetings.

3) Bob plans to build out the landing pages in advance of the switch over to the new look wiki. https://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/Category:Home Also, required is for the J Search Bar to be put up in the wiki as it has been in the prototype wiki https://code2.jsoftware.com/wiki/Category:Home. Raul feels that we can do this when it is needed.

For access to previous meeting reports https://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/Wiki_Development

If you would like to participate in the development of the J wiki please contact us on the general forum and we will get you an invitation to the next J wiki meeting held on Thursdays at 23:00 (UTC) Next meeting is October 12, 2023.

Transcript

So I guess the beta to start with, or the, yeah, the, what the beta is doing to the jWiki viewer.

So I don't know that the beta is doing anything to the jWiki viewer.

It's just, it's my desperate speculation.

There are really two issues.

One is that as far as I know, all of my Windows users have reported that it freezes now as of a few days ago.

The other thing is that on my Mac, I've got this little form here.

When I show dialogue, I don't know if you can see this, but it just flashes.

And I get a little no that gets printed out over here on the left.

The window doesn't stick.

Somehow it's being dismissed immediately for some reason.

I just upgraded to the latest version of Mac OS, which is-- I forget the name.

It's not what you're using, Bob.

I think you're out of date.

Yeah, I am.

But it doesn't make any difference.

I still have this effect.

So between those two things, I'm not in a good place, I guess I would say.

Now I'm going to order a.

.

.

sorry, I've been working with Bill Zuch in Australia for the last couple of days.

It was he who helped me figure out that.

.

.

Sorry, he's having freezing problems.

He's a Windows user.

It was he who helped me figure out that something I can actually isolate and characterize as a problem, which is that Qt Windows that are started maximized, launched maximized, do not maximize under MS Windows currently, at least not on his machine.

So I reported that, but I can't get any traction on that.

Nobody's responded to that.

So, okay, I'm going to order a Windows box tomorrow and try to tackle it directly.

Doing it by remote control is obviously difficult for me, but also So it's a lot to ask of Bill.

He executed a lot of code on my behalf over the last few days, very kindly.

And I don't want to ask him to do anything more.

So I'm not sure how long that will take.

I'm not sure how long it'll take to figure out what's going on with the Mac.

But I would like to pause beta recruitment until I figure this out.

- Okay.

And existing people that we've talked to on beta, especially, I think there's two or three that I've invited in the last couple of days.

Did you want me to put them on pause, basically say, don't worry about it right now, or what do you want me to put.

- If you wouldn't mind, then just explain that we've got problems because we're in beta.

- Yeah, exactly, yeah.

And there's really nothing, I mean, Can they even go in and try things, or is that just like, we don't know whether it'll work.

- Not under Windows.

And if they're having, if they have my Macintosh problems, not under the Mac, you can't load the database 'cause you can't get past the dialogue.

It defaults to no.

- Oh, okay.

That's interesting.

- Yeah.

I just thought of a cheeky way to do it.

Can you reverse the default.

- Sure, that would be unethical, but I can do it.

- I know, but yeah, but I mean, just thinking that would allow you to be able to do it.

- Yeah, technically, yes, absolutely.

Yeah, that's out of the box thinking and I respect it.

(Ralph laughing) - Well, I said it's cheeky, I wouldn't recommend it.

Any thoughts, Ralph.

I'm looking at an email from Henry.

He said, I'm sorry, I'm being distracted.

- Oh, okay, no worries.

The maximizing thing, you're saying it's not allowing the window freezes because QT won't allow it to come out in maximum form, is that right.

- No, what I'm saying is the only pathological behavior I can isolate is that.

I can't do anything about the report that it's frozen under Windows.

There's nothing to grab onto there.

But I can say, look, here's a behavior that it behaves one way on the Mac and it behaves differently under Windows, the same code.

So maybe that's a clue.

That's as far as I can go.

>> And the difference is in a Mac, it maximizes a window.

As it's supposed to, yes.

Okay.

So when you, when you, go ahead.

Well, I was going to say, I, I went through the process of opening up the, the JVookie viewer, and there's a flash on the screen for one frame.

And what it shows in that flash before you see the full screen is you see each of the components before they blow up.

Do you, do you see that as as well when you run it on a Mac.

Not that I've noticed.

Can I even run it.

Let's see.

I'll just show you what it looks like, because I think I've got it on my-- Yeah, go ahead.

Yeah, OK, so I'll share screen.

And where's my-- oh, there's-- of course, it's the one that's lit up in green.

Why would not be.

Here we go.

And share.

So that's a freeze frame.

As you can see, I'm in QT.

And so immediately before that, there's the flash.

Yeah, I think what the web people call that is a FOUC, F-O-U-C, Flash of Unformatted Content.

And I think it's just life in the big city.

It's just something that happens.

OK.

So it's not a case of those windows not being maximized yet.

Well, when I say window-- Or those components.

Those components.

Yeah, that does look to me like those components-- well, those components are clearly not yet in position.

So they haven't been sized and positioned to reflect the fact that their containing window is maximized.

That is certainly true.

So I guess the question I got when I saw this is why are you not sending the window out already with the components maximized.

Well, that's not how WD does it.

With WD, you only have the parent being maximized or not.

And then everything is scaled based on the parent.

Although it would be interesting to try full screen as opposed to maximized, see if that gives you a different or more useful result.

That's an interesting point.

Because you can tell, like before you do your show, you know the dimensions of the screen, right.

WD has-- You do know that, yes.

And WD has access to that.

It absolutely does, yes.

Yeah.

But I guess this is what you're saying here is, it doesn't matter that it already knows the size of the screen it's gonna show, it's still gonna do this little glitch before it jumps up.

That is my belief, yeah.

It seems to go through a two-step process.

One is arrange the components as if the window were not maximized and then maximize it and then rearrange the components accordingly.

- So when you're doing your P show in WD, are you doing it right at the end or before it finds out what the size of the window is going to be.

I leave it up to it to determine the size of the window.

That's what PShowMaximized does.

So PShowMaximized checks the dimensions of the physical display and calculates the window size accordingly, taking into account the menu bar and the title bar and so on.

So it's for me a one step process.

But where in, how, how far along are you before there's a, there's a, there's a WP WDP show command, right.

Which is then you've done all your setup and then you blast it out.

Is that blasting out happening right at the end.

The end of what.

Well, the end of creating all your components, all your spacing, all that kind of stuff.

Is it happening there.

All of that, well, I can actually-- I'll stop sharing.

--risk of boring you.

I can show you.

So-- so build form creates all of the Qt widgets.

Layout form specifies their maximum widths and heights.

And then the next thing that happens as of any relevance is PSHOW.

And then it's followed by those settings.

Yeah.

Why would you not set the PSHOW at the final thing.

You certainly could, I think.

Because you see what I'm saying is-- No, actually, you can't.

OK.

So when I go to set font slider for-- no, actually, I'm not sure.

When I go to set font slider, for example, I don't know if font slider actually exists as a thing until PSHOW happens.

OK, so this is what I think this is where-- and you might be right.

There might not be a way around it.

But that's where I'm saying, if you do PSHOW at the end of the whole process, I I don't think you get that flash frame in between.

Whether or not the flash frames, but okay, so you can't comment out the font.

Well, or yeah.

Well, I mean, we can see where their font slider affects it.

So we'd wanna put, can you show Max.

I just tried it.

Apparently, this-- oh, did I-- Yeah, you did.

Yeah, you set font slider.

Yeah, yeah.

Not looking good.

No.

OK.

So-- I'm not sure why that wouldn't work.

Well, there may be things that you're doing in the intervening process.

But my practice-- I'm betting that setting these controls, for example, is bad news if you haven't actually done P-SHO.

Actually, I wonder about WD messages.

That's not necessary, apparently, at least not for that.

Sorry, go ahead.

Yeah, no, I was just going to say, I don't know all the details of those next steps, but I do know what I've always done in the past, my practice is to always have P show as the final thing on the form.

And then the way I think I might get around some of that is I build it in a two-step process, but I still end up putting P show in at the end of that second step.

I'm just trying to think of how I get around the thing where I got a-- when I was doing Jig, I have to set things-- no, I have a default set that I do go to.

And then I store that.

So yeah, I can set everything ahead of time.

When you say set, what do you mean.

Well, the different values.

Like for instance, your set font slider, FS has to have a value.

FS is getting a value once PSHOW is done.

I am setting FS to a default value initially.

So I don't look for PSHOW to do that.

That allows me to put PSHOW at the end of the string.

I think that's what's going on here.

Well, FontSlider does have a default value that gets set during build form.

I'm just-- and that's just the default thing that happens.

I'm pulling it off of the settings database and resetting it, essentially, here.

But that's OK.

That can happen after PShow.

Let me try.

I'm guessing this won't work any better.

No, it does.

It does.

And it's still got the flash, though.

Yeah.

So OK, so that starts-- I mean, we can walk down the string.

Is it set live age label is the thing that it's looking for.

Technically, we should be doing a binary search here, Bob.

Yeah, you're right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

No, no, that's fine.

Yeah.

Yeah, it seems to be set live age label.

Something's happening there that Okay, which we need.

We need a p show to have executed.

I'm not sure it matters much, but yeah, I'm actually trying to set it to some text.

- But that would be a constant, isn't it.

- It's not, it doesn't, no.

I mean, well, yeah, all docs is a constant.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah.

- And, but the cutoff year, for example, is not.

And in any case, WD controls don't really understand whether they're being set to constants or not.

- No, no, I get that.

But to me, the cutoff here, if it's not a constant, is coming from someplace, and that's probably being generated by a P-show.

- Well, live age, which is a control.

Yeah.

Does need-- that's the slider for the query, the search.

That needs to exist for this to work properly.

I don't think it really exists until you pshow.

I'm wondering whether you need another verb that's not set live age label, but initialize live age label.

Well, that happens in build form.

OK.

So here's live age.

And I forget how to interpret all of these parameters, but one of them is the default.

Do you see what I mean.

Yeah.

I don't need another verb to set the default because I'm setting it when I create the control.

Right.

My intuition is that there's a point at which you can actually-- it may not be picking up on it.

Like, for instance, the way you're doing your WD, I usually have a second verb that sets all those values.

I don't set them within the-- well, actually, you're doing it-- usually what I do is I declare a noun, which is my template.

And I don't bother with any of the WDs.

And so I won't set defaults in there.

I'll go back in my next step, which is a verb.

And it goes in and actually sets everything that I need to set.

Right.

And as to the first point-- go ahead, sorry.

And I was going to say, and then at the end of that do my p show.

Yeah, but I mean, two points, I guess.

First, there's no difference as far as I know between defining a noun with all of your WD commands in it and actually explicitly invoking WD commands.

I mean, it's maybe cleaner to have just a noun.

And then secondly, I don't think, It seems, again, to make no difference to define your initial values in the creation commands.

I mean, the syntax is there to do it.

It's clearly expected.

Yeah, and not only that, when I'm looking at this, you're doing it in font slider.

And it isn't a problem with font slider.

Right.

And that tells me that's not where the problem is.

I didn't see that anywhere else.

Yeah, yeah.

Huh, interesting.

So-- Yeah.

Very strange.

But once I have a Windows box, I think I'll be able to make some progress.

Yeah, and in the meantime, I'll contact Rick, who I think might be doing Mac anyway.

But then it's just a matter of which version of-- Yeah, I mean, I don't trust the Mac anymore either.

I haven't, I don't know about Linux, but.

And I guess it's the question for me is that, and I, at some point I'm going to have to go up from Monterey, and it's probably about right, the right time that I go to Ventura, which is the next one up, because I usually wait a year before I do them.

But at that point, I wonder whether we can find out maybe Ventura is what breaks it.

Like it might be if you've gone up another step beyond that to, what is it, Sonoma, I think is the new one.

Maybe that's just a beta.

But anyway, it may be that subsequently it's Max that now is happening, you know, like something to do with the operating system and a Max doing that.

That's entirely possible, but I think something changed with Qt, the timing of this, in such that I think something changed with Qt.

It could still be Ventura's fault or Monterey's fault or whatever.

Maybe you have Ventura's fault.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But I think there was a change and I'm going to have to figure out how to get around it.

But the only change to QT that they've done is the same one that I was on with J9.

4, right.

Oh, I don't know what… No, J9.

4 is running a different QT, I think, isn't it.

That I don't know for sure.

I can find that out pretty quick.

2.

5.

1, 6.

2.

4 is 9.

5.

They look-- the versions of Qt are the same.

Are they.

For 9.

4 and 9.

5.

Yeah.

Really.

Yeah.

The difference is just the beta.

Well, that doesn't make any sense.

Well, no, it doesn't because I had, I'm just when I said difference is beta as I meant, did a difference from beta five to beta seven, but when I switched from beta five to beta seven, that made no difference at all.

So, that's not the difference.

That's really weird.

So the difference between our things happening is the Mac OS.

And the thing that happened in the last couple of days is Apple pushed a security update to their operating system.

But they also pushed one for Monterey.

They did venture in, I think, a little bit over 10 days ago, but Monterey was like four days ago.

And I've done that.

It's possible that could be a difference, I don't know.

- You know, I'm seeing that there is a difference.

251624 versus 2516 versus, excuse me.

You reported 241624, right.

- Oh, sorry, yes, you're right.

You're right, it's 2.

4.

1, not 2.

5.

1.

So yes, there is a difference in the version.

There's a difference.

Qt has changed.

But Qt changed quite a while ago.

Well, I only upgraded to the beta in the last couple of days.

Ah, there you go.

So OK.

It's in the last couple of days that this manifested itself.

OK.

OK, so you're right.

That's what the difference is then.

It's a difference.

It is a difference.

It's a difference.

But for whatever reason-- That's always the fun problem with fixing computer problems is I fixed a problem.

I didn't necessarily fix all the problems.

Right.

But are you saying you see the Mac problem when you're off of the beta as well, or it only shows up on the beta.

It appeared on the beta.

I haven't backed out to the older version.

Actually, I can do that, can't I.

Because I didn't delete the other-- Yeah, I do it all the time.

Yeah, all right.

live a little guts, let's see here.

Because I think what we'll be able to tell people is on the Mac version-- we will find out shortly-- but on the Mac version, we may tell them that just don't use the beta.

We're working on that.

[AUDIO OUT] That's it.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

So OK.

So you're back to-- I can load up a dialog and it works.

OK.

OK.

Thank you, Bob.

No worries.

That's helpful.

OK, so that also tells us that it's definitely-- for the Mac thing, we still don't know about freezing on the Windows.

- Yeah, but this takes half of my universe of problems off my plate, which is a big step forward.

- Happy to help out.

(laughing) - Thank you very much.

- I wandered in the wilderness for a while, but I think I got there.

- I was meaning to dive into that hang problem on the Windows version, but I hadn't mustered up the down to it yet.

- Well, I appreciate the sentiment.

don't sweat it.

It's really my bailiwick.

I will tackle it as soon as I get appropriate hardware.

I actually looked into trying to run Windows on the Mac, but it's a lot easier just to get a laptop.

Well, and the other challenge is, at least when I do stuff like that, I'm really never sure about where, you know, Giddy and Cassidy.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's a tricky.

Not to mention network is kind of… really, if you have it as a host instead of a parallel thing, I guess.

Okay, well, so what I'll do… The message I'll have to people that I've talked to… Ian probably won't be an issue because I know he's running a Mac.

So I just tell him, "Don't use the beta, use 9.

4.

" So I can send him that message.

Rick, I think might be using a Mac.

Do you know whether Rick Sherlock's using Mac or PC, Roel.

- I do not know.

- Okay.

- I don't know.

He uses both.

- He may, yeah.

I think Eric's got both.

And I'll just tell him if they wanna try it out, try it, don't try it out on the beta on a Mac, but if you try it on a Mac, if you try it on a PC, we're dealing with issues in freezing, and is that just beta as well.

Well, I guess you can't tell.

Or has Bill gone.

I think I experienced it on 9.

4.

Did you.

Okay.

Okay.

I tested it on 9.

4 and I experienced it.

I'd have to go back and check where Bill got it.

I can double check that now, although I might drop off if it hangs because I think it pushed, I ran out of memory or something.

I know I've had my browser die when Jay was hanging off it.

If you, if you go offline, we salute your bravery.

[LAUGHTER] Yeah, Bill is running the beta.

Yeah.

And well, I guess it's kind of obvious for something like JIG that is my application.

I'll support people doing the most recent version.

It's got to work for that.

For the beta, I'm really interested in the feedback, but I'm not guaranteeing it's going to be any time frame to fix it for you.

Because the beta is dancing right now.

Every time a new beta comes out-- haven't done it today.

I updated today.

But I usually go in and check again to see whether it's broken something, because quite often it does.

that seems to be a condition of doing stuff with JQT and the interfaces.

They're somewhat fragile when the beta starts dancing around.

Yeah.

I think I'm, I remember back when I worked for a living having to support hardware that I didn't actually have access to, and it's a miserable existence.

I forgotten quite how bad it is.

So if I'm going to be supporting on Windows, I can do Linux on the Mac and that seems to work out pretty well.

Although the network to Raoul's point can be a problem.

But I think I need actual Windows hardware if I'm going to be supporting Windows.

So Raul, do you have any definitive information at this point.

No, I had not tried it on J9.

4.

Because I have to download the database, because it wasn't installed.

Oh, OK.

So it's possible this may be a beta issue, even for Bill.

That would take the pressing issue out of it.

Just means that we're, we, we move along with the beta process.

Yeah.

Maybe that would make sense.

But what I'll do is send a note to bill who is asleep now.

I'm asking him if he can try it under nine four and just see whether he still has a problem.

Yeah.

- Yeah, I can't remember for Australia, but I think right now it's what about, I want to say three in the morning his time, but might be off by a bit.

Or it might just be late at night, I was trying to think.

- I'll send it now, who knows.

- Yeah, yeah, no, it'll hit when it hits.

- He's been extremely responsive.

- And people tend to not wake up when they receive emails.

(laughing) (laughing) - Yeah, unless you're-- - I'm doing that stuff.

- Well, yeah.

- I mean, you could have your VP when you get an email, but most people don't do it that way.

- No, that's what drives sysadmins crazy.

And to an early grave.

- Sysadmins have to already be crazy.

You don't get the job if you're not.

- Yeah, I think that's true.

It's an interesting discussion I've been having with people about sysadmins, self-esteem, and a number of other things that go together.

And it's kind of scary, really.

Anyway, another topic.

- I used to be a sysadmin, so I have the right to say that.

(both laughing) I can be scared of me.

- Yeah, well, okay.

You seem to have fairly healthy self-esteem.

So you seem to have at least- - Survived.

- Well, survived and accommodated it, right.

But anyway-- - Yeah, it's been a while since I had done that kind of work, too.

- Yeah, that's true.

Yeah, yeah, it wears off after a while.

I think, well, other than, if we can find out, I don't really wanna back people up.

What I could tell people is for sure that it looks like you'll have no problem working on the Mac under 9.

4.

If you've got a Mac, do that.

You can play with it all you like.

If you don't, we think that it might be working okay under Windows 9.

4.

We think it's only the beta it's having problems with.

But if you do have problems, let us know, because that will be helpful.

And then they at least know that they're working with a beta, and they may not see the full-- they've still got the link to the video and everything.

And that was the other thing is, did you want to do a video of your-- do you think that's required, Ed.

You know, now that I've got the-- can you hear me.

Yep.

Now that I've got the contrast that you were able to highlight, I think I do.

But I can do it.

I've done it before.

I've made Mac screen videos and posted them on YouTube.

So I can take care of that.

We don't need to take up time with that here.

But I think I might just show 9.

4, 9.

5.

Something's going on here.

There's definitely a problem, even if I'm the only one who can see it.

- Well, I loaded up JWIKI under 9.

4 and it is hanging under 9.

4.

- Okay.

- Okay.

- I can share my screen if you wanna see an hourglass on JWIKI Viz, but that's very interesting.

- I can imagine it all too well.

- You might've seen that yourself.

- Indeed.

Is there anything else we'd like to chat about with the, with the Chez Wiki viewer.

- I'm good as far as the viewer goes at this point.

Thank you.

- Okay.

Next thing is, I think next Thursday and the Thursday after, as far as I know, I'm gonna be off the grid camping again.

And the place I'm camping, I think from what I've heard, goes dry, which means that there's no water and there's no electricity.

So it's gonna be an interesting experience.

So I haven't usually done that with a camper van.

I've done lots of that with backpacking, but it'll be a test of our generator and stuff.

But it means that for the next two weeks after this one, there probably won't be meetings.

And so what I was looking at are the things that, looking at a list of all my categories and which ones are up to date and which ones aren't, and most of them aren't.

So depending on whether I do have access to being online, I may or may not get those, but I think that's gonna push me back out at probably another month.

'Cause what I'd like to do is have the top and the first layer at least to the point where it looks nice, and you don't immediately go into things that say, well, you could look at any of these pages, but they're just a list of pages.

And then the next step beyond that is to clean those up.

So they're mostly text.

They will no longer be nice graphics, but at least they'll be organized.

Whereas right now they're just not organized.

And then when we get to that point, then I'm ready to flip the switch.

The only other thing that exists that hasn't been done yet is, Raul, we were talking about taking that JSearch bar and moving it from the content area to above the content area.

Do you remember that.

I do remember that.

We haven't done it.

I've still got access to that page.

So I've still got all the CSS and everything there.

So I don't think it's hard to do.

But when we flip this over, then that goes up there because it should be on every page.

And then the only other question is whether the jWiki viewer should be on that bar.

Is that a possibility.

Right now it's got the search that Chris wrote is the link to the bar.

But I don't know, because you need JQT, I don't know whether you can put it on a, as a link.

I'm missing some context here.

The bar is, are we talking about the wiki or are we talking about JQT.

We're talking about the wiki, but the three things that are up on the bar was a map of the wiki, page map.

Then there was also NUVOC, so there was a quick link to NUVOC on every page.

every page.

And then the third one was Chris's J code search, which is this is on the test wiki.

We had it on the test wiki.

Yeah, we have not put it on the mind the main wiki.

And is and the test wiki still there so we can we can copy it.

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So we I see the bar we're talking about.

Yes, we're just talking about migrating this from the test wiki to the production here, right.

Yes.

When we're ready.

We're not ready for that yet.

Right.

And I think this is a mix of CSS update and-- I have to go look.

I've spent so many months since I've been working on that, I don't know where the pieces are.

I think the name of the page in the-- it might still be the name of the page in the old wiki.

I believe it's jCodeSearch.

Wiki/jCodeSearch.

search.

Nope, not j code search.

Okay, let me take a look at what I've got.

At [Pause] I had this is gonna drive me nuts cuz I had it here today.

Nope, not there.

What's there.

If you look at the page I'm putting in chat, you can see my part of this, but I don't know where the content came from.

There's a second commented section, says Jade Co-search CSS, declares some things that take the site notice and turn it into this bar.

Because what we noted was that there was a CSS class that I was using that screwed up other existing CSS classes.

Anyway, I'm sure I can find it.

I saw it earlier today.

I just can't put my finger on it right now.

But worst case, we can re-engineer it.

But I think it took us a couple of days of first time around.

No, yeah.

And I'm almost-- well, I know I saw it today.

So I know I can go find it again.

And I'll send you a link to the actual form.

Because in the area I had it, it was below the line.

It was in content.

That's where I was putting it.

And when you and I worked with it, you were able to put it up above the line because you were putting it in the main part of the, was the wiki part of the wiki media part of the stuff above content.

And that isolates it.

And that's a much nicer way to do it.

But don't have to do that now, but that's just, that's the only other thing I've found that really needs to be done.

I think before we're ready to flip the switch.

- Okay, well, sometime then, you know, when you're comfortable doing it, we'll sit down and do it.

- Yep, okay, sounds good.

And so that's about all I've got just in terms of stuff that needs to get done.

I'm not gonna try and go recategorize everything now.

That'll be once we've got this thing up and flying.

But I think the good news would be if I have internet, then I've got a few, probably 10 days of being able to sit down and work on stuff and that would be great.

(laughing) But we'll see.

- I'm not sure you've entirely internalized the concept of vacation, but perhaps I am wrong.

- Oh, no, you see, I can look out the window in the camper and I can watch cruise ships go up and down a channel.

It's lovely.

On a sunny day, you can see the sun glinting off the waves.

It's beautiful.

And then you can go right back to work.

It's wonderful.

- Yeah, yeah.

(laughing) I definitely, definitely, definitely get it.

No question about it.

- Yeah, no, there's lots of time for me to do other things too.

It just means that I won't get held up as this looks like I might.

But if I do, that's life, you know, and I've got one.

So I'm comfortable with that.

Anyway, that's about it for me.

Is there anything else anybody wants to bring up.

Or how are you doing, Arthur.

I was thinking Art has been muted and see if he's-- he's not interested in replying at this point.

That's OK.

Or maybe his mute button is looted.

Maybe the mute button has got his better.

No, that was all I wanted to talk about to answer your question.

OK.

Raul, anything.

Nope.

I spent half the meeting distracted.

So I'm feeling like I should have been more teaching something other than that.

I'm good.

I think-- We'll do it again sometime.

In so many meetings, it's been a superpower to be able to spend half the meeting distracted.

Because important things can get missed, and then you can act like you never heard.

[LAUGHTER] Where is that.

Did you get a chance to read the thing that I sent Ed about the 500 miles.

Yeah, I'm halfway through it.

Oh, you got to get-- I'm sorry, I was-- No worries.

--sleeping.

I was really distracted.

Yes.

I will finish it.

Yes, and thank you.

Yeah, it's got a good ending.

I'm contagious.

You're contagious.

[LAUGHTER] Yeah.

The distraction virus is-- Well, so if you've got internet, are you going to hold the meetings, or you'll just be working.

That's a good question.

What I'll do is I'll do the usual thing.

I'll send out an invitation after I've done the minutes of this one.

And that invitation just might be to everybody saying there's no meeting because we don't have internet.

If there is, then the next question is, is the internet good enough.

Because the last place I went, I had internet.

It wasn't good enough to do that at all.

Yeah.

If you want to run a test in advance, I'd certainly be happy to be your, the other side of the, of the tunnel.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

I'll, I'll do it within more copacetic hours for you.

I recognize that working with someone in British Columbia poses challenges given where I am, and I am reconciled to that, so don't sweat it.

Well, you got that right even beyond time zones.

All right, take care, Bob.

Thanks, Raul.

Goodbye.

Bye-bye.

Bye, Raul.

Bye, Art.

Have a good week.

Be safe.